http://www.cloakanddagger.de presents:

 

REBUTTAL ARGUMENT:

YES, 270 TONS AND MORE DID FLY SIDEWAYS

By: Dr. Stefan Grossmann, 1-21-8

www.gallerize.com

 

Per 1-26-8: Click for Part 2, Video Page (Nuking of the WTC)

 

1. This is a counter-argument. Reports of mine are under attack. See e-mail by Robert Stockmann to the sender below at the end.

 

2. Damage in a near-by building (the American Express corporate headquarters, known by various names as World Financial Center building 3, WFC 3, Amex Building) evidences that an estimated several thousand tons of rubble were displaced over 390 feet sideways from the collapsing World Trade Center across a broad avenue. It is physically evident that the cause could only have been a huge explosion.

 

3. A difficult person, the submitter objecting against my reports, wants to attack FEMA, an official government agency, for publishing the following information (screenshot with URL, archived by me today, on the internet for years):

 

FEMA 3942 b Description Page.jpg

 

The submitter, a difficult person, does not like it that the U.S. government agency published a figure telling us that the beam lodged in the nearby building (Amex building) was a „600,000 pound beam” (quote from the FEMA web page). He is complaining to me because I used that figure in reports some years ago.

 

Hey, can any of you help that guy?

 

4. When the major bomb explosion destroyed North Tower (WTC 1, closest corner about 400 feet away from the closest corner of the Amex building), an estimated several thousands of tons of debris were blasted sideways and landed in other buildings. This is quite evident from photos on the internet, such as:

 

055 demolition squibs.jpg

Demolition squibbs

 

056 WTC2 demolition squibs.jpg

Demolition squibbs

 

ARCHIVE PDF

Read page 200 of this archive pdf,

Deputy Assistant Chief of Safety Albert Turi,

New York Fire Department – he saw the middle floor

being detonated first, and he tells us (NY Times).

 

ARCHIVE PDF

Pentagon Officers Observed Bomb Explosions

 

126 buses melted.jpg

Sight Seeing Buses melted from bomb heat

(not kerosene, not fires). See at the right.

 

Clipboard10.jpg

A frequently forgotten report by the Insurance Industry:

The damage field had a radius of two miles, see

RMS ARCHIVE PDF

 

3942.jpg

The government reported this spike in

the Amex building, photo Michael Rieger,

FEMA photograph (see above).

Government estimate: 600,000 pounds.

Questionable?

 

Answer: If so, but irrelevant. Here is an estimated

several thousands of tons debris worth of damage in the

World Finance Center through 9-11-1:

wtc052_1024x768.jpg

Notice a whole wing of the Amex building destroyed.

 

wtc042_1024x768.jpg

The destroyed wing is beneath the higher floors where

the government reported a 600,000 beam flew in.

The damage on that wing alone looks to me like

thousands of tons of debris from the WTC

were bombed across the highway.

 

wtc053_1024x768.jpg

The whole glass Pavillion (Winter Garden) destroyed,

rebuilt over two years for $50 million.

 

Page 2 of the RMS insurance industry report (pdf above) gives

the Amex building a red zoning for „major damage”.

 

626528.jpg

It took the workers until November 17, 2001 or

not very long prior to that date to remove the

government-reported 600,000 pound beam

from approx. the 20th floor. It is gone on this photo,

November 17, 2001.

Photo above by Rob, cached from:

http://www.pbase.com/rpipe/image/626528

 

aaa.jpg

FEMA photo by Andrea Booher, October 4, 2001,

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibrary/photo_details.do?id=4250

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photodata/original/4250.jpg

The closest building was WFC 2 (background where the white crane

is pointing). Why was the farther away Amex building (WFC 3, right

background) hit more strongly?

 

5. Next, the poor submitter wants to deny that the World Trade Center was destroyed through a nuclear device, not necessarily a Hiroshima-type bomb. Isn’t that just ridiculous?

 

Here’s news for the guy:

 

a) Does the poor submitter believe what the government lies to us about „raging building fires”? There’s more than 9-11 reasons to doubt this, because it is evident that building fires alone could not, and did not, destroy the World Trade Center. Read this:

 

Clipboard11.jpg

 

CLICK HERE FOR FULL WTC FIRE REPORT (PDF)

 

b) Does the poor submitter really not know that the World Trade Center was bombed? Read this:

 

 

CLICK HERE FOR FULL WTC BOMB REPORT (PDF)

 

Similar to what General Benton Partin found after the April 19, 1995 nuking of the Oklahoma City courthouse by insiders (and the government crookedly ignored its own General’s diligent report), nuclear residues were found at the WTC by scientists working for the government, see

Elevated Tritium Levels at the WTC

 

The government’s explanation that „planes” carried the tritium in their emergency „exit” signs and thus contaminated the site is ludicrous – because there were no civilian planes. What we were shown on TV and in photos were models. See research by Marcus Icke.

 

I like the following evidence best, personally: The entry holes do not match a Boeing 767-200 (the alleged impact aircraft), see

9-11 Hole Science

This is good hard evidence that the towers were not hit by civilian planes but were hit by missiles /or call them drones like insider information tells us – such as from inside the FBI with relation to the cruise missile that hit the Pentagon, see:

FBI told German Police Cruise Missile Hit Pentagon

 

Reference all research. Not to be repeated here.

 

Audio recordings of the collapse sound tell us that the towers (North Tower example here) did not pancake but that they were flattened like an old hotel through a controlled demolition (in conjunction with a nuclear-type blast, which could technically be remote placed through a HAARP plasma weapon). See article with sound recording:

North Tower Demolition Sound

 

These are a few of the good reasons not to follow the submitter who is a difficult person (below, tackled in technical terms by Robert).

 

The E-Mail by a Submitter

with technical counter-argument by Robert Stockmann:

 

Absender:

Robert M. Stockmann <stock@stokkie.net>

https://email.t-online.de/i/print/one.gif

 

Datum:

21.01.08 00:30

https://email.t-online.de/i/print/one.gif

 

Empfänger:

Alburyt@aol.com <Alburyt@aol.com>

https://email.t-online.de/i/print/one.gif

 

Kopie/CC:

StefanGrossmann@t-online.de <StefanGrossmann@t-online.de>

https://email.t-online.de/i/print/one.gif

 

Betreff:

re: „CONFUSION AROUND 270 TON FLYING DETAIL“

https://email.t-online.de/i/print/one.gif

 

https://email.t-online.de/i/print/one.gif

 

https://email.t-online.de/i/print/one.gif


On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 Alburyt@aol.com wrote:

> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:53:40 EST
> From: Alburyt@aol.com
> To: StefanGrossmann@t-online.de, stock@stokkie.net
> Subject: re: „CONFUSION AROUND 270 TON FLYING DETAIL“
>
> Dr.  Grossmann:
> Now that you've _told_
>
> (http://www.cloakanddagger.de/_Grossmann/270%20tons/Confusion_around_270_Ton_Detail.htm)
> us that the
>
> „_270  ton beam_
> (http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibrary/photo_details.do?id=3942)
>
> „ protruding from the Amex Building in NYC after the terrorist attacks
> of 9/11/01 wasn't really from the core of the North Tower, as you
> previously claimed, but was a perimeter column tree, which anyone
> having even the slightest familiarity with the framing of the towers
> would have  known immediately, this might be a good time to correct
> your far more flagrantly absurd claim that the thing weighed
> 270 metric tons in the first place. Despite the obvious mistake in
> the FEMA caption, it actually weighed about 2.7 metric tons, based on the
> fact that it consisted of three 14“ X 14“ steel tubes with  1/4“ walls,

Dear BUD,

Please forward your analysis to FEMA, USATODAY, 911digitalarchive.org
and any other organization who has archived this in error. That is if
you are correct. A decent SUV vehicle also weights 2.7 tonnes. The
calculations would then be off by a factor a hundred (100). According

http://crashrecovery.org/911/#WTC270

The following would change in my calculations :

  „The Kinetic energy of the Horizontal part of the Trajectory :

    E = 0.5*m*v^2 = 0.5*270,000*20.83*20.83 = 58575001.5 Joule = 58 MJoules.“

would then become :

  „The Kinetic energy of the Horizontal part of the Trajectory :

    E = 0.5*m*v^2 = 0.5*2700*20.83*20.83 = 585750.015 Joule = 0.58 MJoules.“

The amount of needed TNT explosives would become 0.139 kilogram, or 139
grams instead of 13.9 kg. This is not really unbelievable to have
happened. Leaves us to re-analyze the rest of the calculations:

  „The total Impuls needed is

   P_horizontal = m.v = 270x10^3*20.83 = 5.624x10^6 kg.m/s“

would then become :

  „The total Impuls needed is

   P_horizontal = m.v = 270x10^1*20.83 = 5.624x10^4 kg.m/s“

next F_horizontal :

  „F_horizontal = m.dv/dt = 270x10^3*20.83/1x10^-6 = 5,624x10^9 kg.m/s^2
                                                   = 5,624x10^9 N“

would then become :

  „F_horizontal = m.dv/dt = 270x10^1*20.83/1x10^-6 = 5,624x10^7 kg.m/s^2
                                                   = 5,624x10^7 N“

next the computed needed mass of the building to make it happen :

  „Through the total weight of the construction with its gravity
   g = 9.8 m/s^2 would apply for a sideway force of

   F_horizontal = m.g

   The mass needed todo that is m = F_horizontal/g = 574x10^9 kg, which
   is 574x10^6 tons.“

would then become :

  „Through the total weight of the construction with its gravity
   g = 9.8 m/s^2 would apply for a sideway force of
   
   F_horizontal = m.g

   The mass needed todo that is m = F_horizontal/g = 574x10^7 kg, which
   is 574x10^4 tons.“

However the WTC building is _STILL_ roughly 500,000,000 kg, i.e.
500x10^3 tons. So there's still a discrepancy there of a factor 10.
Your claim of reduced weight argument could be valid if the steel beam
object would have had a weight of 0.27 metric tons, which is 270 kilogram.

> each of which was no more than 36' long, plus some lightweight
> spandrels and a few miscellaneous brackets, and that steel weighs
> about 490#/cubic foot. No one could ever fully repair the credibility
> of someone who claims, despite absolutely no evidence at all to support it,
> that „a nuclear device, but not necessarily a Hiroshima type atomic bomb“
> was a plausible  explanation for the fact that debris was expelled outward
> from the towers when  they collapsed, but I hope this helps.

We never claimed that nuclear devices were used, at least I didn't. I
just calculated how many kilograms or grams of TNT shape charges are
needed to have a 270 Ton steel beam expel outward the way as was
photographed and archived by FEMA, USATODAY and others.

Yours Sincerely,

Robert M. Stockmann
--
Robert M. Stockmann - RHCE
Network Engineer - UNIX/Linux Specialist
crashrecovery.org  stock@stokkie.net

 

Per 1-26-8: Click for Part 2, Video Page (Nuking of the WTC)